The Secret We've Used to Beat the Algorithm Since 2012
In this episode of Chatterkick's Generation Social Media podcast, the team dives deep into the agency's long-standing philosophy on approaching organic and paid social media differently to guarantee results for clients. Moving past the common anxieties of gaming algorithms, post timing, and content volume, the discussion highlights how to take control of your social strategy.
Whether you are a CMO looking to maximize your next marketing dollar or an internal team striving to align your social silos, this conversation will reframe how you look at the relationship between your feed and your budget.
Olivia Myers: Hello and welcome to Chatterkick's Generation Social Media podcast. We have two very special guests today. Mariah Black-Overholt, who is an ad strategist and analytics lead for Chatterkick, and Luis Trejo, who is the COO at Chatterkick. So welcome both of you and thanks for joining us today.
Mariah Black-Overholt: Always happy to be on
Luis Trejo: Yes. Thank you. Thank you
Olivia Myers: So I am really excited about today's discussion because it is kind of almost a secret sauce for Chatterkick and something that we've been doing since we started as a company and how we approach organic social differently from other agencies and what it means for our clients whenever we do that and some of the aha moments that they have. And so, really the premise around this is that so many brands publish content and try to game the algorithm and figure out exactly, well, how many posts am I supposed to do? When am I supposed to post them? Do I need six people to go in and immediately react on these posts to get bigger reach? And we've basically figured out how to get past all of those concerns and almost guarantee some results. So, before I give all of that information away, I want to kick it over to you, Luis, because what is the origin story of what this strategy is? Like what is the strategy? What's the origin story behind it? And when did we start doing this tactic?
00:03:32 - Origin Story of Chatterkick's Paid Strategy
Luis Trejo: Yeah, it's a really good question and one that kind of came out of being born by the founder of the company, Beth. Was really kind of the premise behind it. So, back in 2012 is when we started and, coincidentally, that was also the same year that Facebook opened up a promoted or a boost of a post. And so really the approach was when we were talking to our clients, you know, reach is something that's very hard to stand behind and organic reach, and it's really the platform itself is kind of deciding where that goes for free on their schedule. But then being able to layer on a paid component was like a lever that we could stack on by ourselves. So, this was more of how do we best mitigate that risk and how can we control it?and then just thinking about putting ourselves in our client's shoes like if we're paying money to have this content developed to post, to capture videos or photos, then we really want to make sure that the right people are seeing it at the right time. So, it was just too much to leave solely on the platform to just say here you go, control is all yours. It really gave us a way to control the controllable from our end.
00:04:37 - Controlling Content Reach & Algorithm Challenges
Olivia Myers: So what yeah I was going to ask kind of building off of that you know what's the actual problem there that we were solving for do you
Luis Trejo: I think some of it was trying to figure out like you know there was a lot of agencies at that time that were pushing volume. It's like just post more, get more get more posts out there, get more words out there, get more content out there, and then you're just hoping that the algorithm is going to reward you for that. So it was a little bit of like trying to figure out what's the best mix of that and also being able to layer on the paid side of things. So it was, you know, we we really did a lot of like testing and trying to figure out what was the best mix. But ultimately at the end of the day it's like like I said before like what you can control is better than always just going for let the platform decide where the best route for this
Olivia Myers: One of the things that I think it's so fascinating about this approach of of the paid amplification of of content, and Maria, I'll talk to you in a little bit about what that actually looks like and how it's a little different from boosting a post. But it's the fact that it translates across every single platform that we have and it's held up for, you know, almost 15 years now. And so I'm I'm curious, Luis, from a business standpoint, why do you think it's held up for that for that long and across all of the platforms?
Luis Trejo: Yeah, I think more that it's like it's a principle that we use instead of like a platform specific tactic. And so being able to lean back on, you know, what I was talking about before where it's like if if we are in the client's shoes, like we're spending all of this money in order to be able to to project our name or our brand or our products or our website or whatever it is. It's banking on the principle to say like this is platform agnostic like we can put this particular dollars behind these posts in a way no matter what platform it's on. So that gives us a really good foundation to build off of and a really great way for us to understand what that means as a company. Like every single person can understand that principle. It doesn't have to be specific to one particular platform. While there's some nuances, but that really lets us keep that foundation for the business.
Olivia Myers: So now that we've kind of set the stage on the why why we started doing this exactly, Mariah, I want to dive into you a little bit on the how without going into ads manager because nobody wants to do that, right? But can you walk us through what what paid social actually means at Chatterkick and how it is so different from what most people actually picture or think of whenever they hear, well, we're going to promote a post, we're going to boost a post, right? Like that's what people generally think whenever we first talk about this with them.
00:08:18 - What Paid Social Means vs. Simple Post Boosting
Mariah Black-Overholt: Yeah, definitely. I think there's a couple different assumptions that people have. One, when we say we're going to promote or, you know, create an ad out of something, they assume that it's going to be thousands massive campaign and outside of maybe the traditional content that's going out on a feed. You know, it's going to be something that's only seen in this instance or only for this amount of time. That's misconception number one. And misconception number two is kind of like what you were saying in that there are different levels of ads management on the three major platforms that you're probably or four major platforms really that you're using for for content creation. LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and Tik Tok all have what I would consider to be like the easy version of promoting or boosting a post wherein you, you know, basically press a button and say spend $50 over two days to boost this. And that's kind of what you've been saying.
00:09:20 - Targeting the Correct Audience with Advanced Ad Tools
Mariah Black-Overholt: Which is basically just to increase the reach, which sounds great in theory. That's we we want to see more reach, right? But really the the tactic behind a lot of this and some of the strategy and philosophy that we're talking about is being able to reach the correct audience. So it's like adding on to that a little bit. So we want to reach the correct audience, but we also want them to take maybe a certain action which is not necessarily available with with a simple boost. But what a lot of people don't realize or what don't understand is that the advanced tools are available to everyone. You don't have to have a special degree. You don't have to have a certification. You don't have to be on Facebook's VIP list, which turns out no one is. But, everyone has access to the ads manager side of things, which allows you to have kind of this backend look at at tools. And what that gives us is control. So, we're allowed to say like, okay, I want to build this audience around this. So, these are my ICPS. Let me find the interests that fit this ICP. Maybe I have a custom list that I want to use to target. There's all kinds of geographic tools, those kind of things to build this list itself to make sure that we know that the person who is seeing it is the correct person. The next thing that we can do with these kind of advanced capabilities outside of boosting is determine the outcome of what it is the interaction is. So when we boost something again we just said we want people to see more of it versus if we use the advanced tools we can say I want people to take this sort of interaction on it. I want them to watch the entire video or I want them to interact with the post or even I want them to go to the website or fill out some sort of further further action. So it it gives us a lot more control and allows us to be able to benchmark and baseline a lot of the outcome as well.
Olivia Myers: I think that you bring up a a really interesting point and and a question for me that comes up from this is the it's it's not taking all of your content exactly and throwing it into the ad campaign with the same ad objective, right?
Mariah Black-Overholt: Great.
Olivia Myers: Like you are kind of picking and choosing based on the content piece because our content strategy for our clients isn't all a lot of our clients come in and they're like, "Oh, I want to drive leads. want to, you know, get whatever it is that their goal is. That's usually like way down the funnel. But what we always educate on is, well, you need it across the entire funnel. So, you need to have some of those loyalty pieces. And maybe that's paired with engagement. Or maybe that's another one is paired with video views just like you said.
00:12:01 - Individual Post Budgets vs. Evergreen Ad Campaigns
Olivia Myers: And so what do you think is the real distinction between giving every post its own budget and and timeline versus what the common approach of social and what lives on the feed lives on the feed. And then we've got these paid evergreen evergreen ads is what I'll call them, but where you're everything lives under the exact same umbrella with the exact same objective with the exact same pool of budget to to pull from.
Mariah Black-Overholt: I think Luis kind of talked about it a little bit earlier, but it's very much just the philosophy that we have behind this um with those evergreen ads, which we we run evergreen campaigns as well. A lot of times clients will have, you know, specific goals in mind for those and those live outside of um, you know, the feed content. But the feed content is really what we're talking about today and those are going to be the pieces that people see when they go to your profile. You know, like here's the chronological list of you know, today we're posting a behind the scenes or tomorrow might be a promo or maybe uh, you know, the next day is you know, a feature of the product. And that's the content that we're talking about today. So, it doesn't necessarily live in a campaign that is like evergreen. It is really just an ongoing visibility of kind of your social content and your social feed.
Mariah Black-Overholt: When we set up our content and when we think about how we're going to promote it, we think about the fact that every post needs to have its own job. It needs to have a purpose. It has to um you know live you kind of alluded to this. Is it going to drive loyalty? Is it going to drive consideration? Um is this a conversion-focused post? And when we build out and brainstorm for those posts, that's one of the things we're thinking about like what is the end goal for this? And once we have that kind of built, that allows us to kind of build the copy and the strategy around the post itself so that it's not just a random like behind the scenes, but it has to do something. Um once that's all set in place and everything's approved, at that point we then determine, okay, what is the end goal for this? So it's a video um and it's a, you know, consideration post. We want people to learn something for that. Okay, I'm probably going to think about that in an objective of I want people to watch the entire video because they're going to learn the most by watching the entire thing. Um and so that's kind of the strategy around how we build that out is to really think about it from start to finish. What do I want this post to do? and how is the best way to get it there? Do I need to change the objective? Do I need to change um the audience? Perhaps it maybe isn't your broadest audience. Maybe it's a smaller segment that is more focused on kind of the the conversion aspect of it. But that can change for everything. Um and it just determine it just det depends on what the the post needs to do.
Olivia Myers: And you know, from a from a business perspective, Luis, I'm going to kick this question over to you. You know, we're talking about incremental ad spend dollars on these what does that actually mean to us? like as far as, you know, how much we're we're spending per post or budgetwise, you know, what percentage of a client's budget goes into these typically these types of campaigns?
Luis Trejo: Yeah, I think some of the beauty of this is that like you don't necessarily have to have a very big budget in order to make this work. And because we can kind of do that that audience targeting in a way where we're getting it in front of the people that the the client needs them to get in front of that just with a little bit of a budget behind a one post or five post or however many posts it is really makes the amplification of what you're trying to get out there stand out.
00:16:25 - Budget Allocation & Cost Efficiency per Post
Luis Trejo: And so like you know for 2050 $100 $150 I mean like that goes a long way. And because we're looking and framing at these particular posts on, okay, like Mariah was saying, we need the outcome of this one to be a conversion or we need the outcome of this one to be a website click that we're able to focus those dollars in on that as opposed to just saying boost this post and just spread it out somewhere and go find these people. It's just makes the the search that much more easy to target.
Mariah Black-Overholt: Yeah, it's a lot more efficient, too. And because we have a lot of baselines and benchmarks on like CPMs or even on conversion type a like actions, we know on average it's probably going to cost, you know, $8 to$10 to reach a,000 people on Facebook. So then that allows us to kind of work backwards of okay like here's what our audience size is how here's how much it will cost to reach these folks or you know I want to try to get you know 20 clicks off of this specific post. How much is it going to cost me when I look at like the cost per click? So there's a there's a couple ways that you can even like work backwards instead of trying to guesstimate. And there's a lot of tools out there these days that allow you to kind of do that kind of benchmarking per platform as well.
Olivia Myers: Which I think lays us perfectly in. You guys told me a couple of hot takes before we jumped in here and hot take number one Mariah was I can guarantee how your content performs. That is a very bold statement in marketing where a lot of what we say to people is well it depends right but Mariah what I'm hearing you say is that you can guarantee a range for impressions and and cost per click and CPM and cost per conversion and and things of that nature on these types of campaigns kind of specifically. So, what makes you that confident enough to say that where most marketers are like, I hope this one works, sends it out into the nether. hoping that that piece will perform.
00:18:39 - Guaranteeing Content Performance & Results
Mariah Black-Overholt: Well, that is very much I think the the secret sauce and like we said it best of like we need to be able to, you know, kind of put our money where our mouth is. If we're going to do this work on this content, we need it to be able to to reach the the right people. And so, you know, having that control over the things that are normally uncontrollable, leaving it up to a roll of the dice or the platform. And one of the things I think people need to remember is that the platform is not here to achieve your business goals. The platform is there to achieve its goals and its goals are to show content in front of the people that are going to see it. And it doesn't matter if it's your content or not. If it's more, you know, if people are more likely to watch a a funny kitten video versus, you know, your B2B software ad, it's going to show a funny kitten video if it's available in its inventory. That's just the the fact of the matter is you know we all love these platforms but we cannot think of them as like you know thinking about us all the time like they do not exist to to really actually amplify your content in the way that you want. So if you want that to happen you have to be able to control some of that. And so when I say like I can kind of guarantee a little bit of you know what those results are going to look like that means that like we said we've kind of done the background work we've done the benchmarking we look at industries we look at trends we look at objectives kind of all you know even formats like I know that you know video is going to be cheaper to show to a wider range of people and I'm going to get you know more video engagement on a post versus if I'm asking for people to share something because that's a higher value engagement, but I can say I know what that's going to cost you to get video versus what it's going to cost you to get shares.
Mariah Black-Overholt: And so, like like you said, we can we can kind of work our way back into that by saying, "Okay, you gave me a $50 budget on this proposed we can probably guarantee that with the, you know, barring any sort of crazy anomalies in seasonality, which, a lot of people will talk about, you know, oh, like Black Friday or like Q4, it's going to be way more expensive." There are some instances where seasonality can affect ad inventory pretty significantly on Facebook especially Google ads sometimes as well. But I would say that for most of the year. Most of the the benchmarks do hold up and they're pretty standard. You're not going to see wild fluctuations kind of month to month or week to week. And so we are be basically able to say, okay, given this budget, given this objective, and given this type of post, we can pretty much guarantee that you're going to be in this range, which is not something you can say with organic.
00:21:31 - Predictable Metrics vs. Chasing Viral Posts
Luis Trejo: Yeah. And I think like even going back like the predictability of a range like you know so often we'll have conversations around like well how how does how did this company get a viral post? Like how did they do that? And you know what we try to tell them is like a viral post is essentially a lottery ticket that you hit. You know, your your your odds aren't very good. From a predictability standpoint, like it's it's hard to repeat. It's hard to budget for. you can't put a viral post on a on a media plan for next quarter. Like, you can't guarantee that. Predictable ranges is a different thing. So, if we can say, okay, for these five posts that we are going to be sending out in September, here's what we're expecting and here's the range that we're expecting. And that's a lot more predictable to like a chief marketing officer or someone in the leadership team as opposed to saying, "We're going to try all these different weird and crazy things that we've been seeing that have been going viral on the internet and we're going to try to repeat that for our brand so that hopefully we can cash in that lottery.
Mariah Black-Overholt: And it's not to say that it's not exciting if you do have a viral moment.I mean, we've had a few of those here over the years. Sometimes on posts that we never would have expected to go viral. But I think something else that's very important to remember about verality is that for the vast majority of people when you have a viral post, it probably isn't actually going to drive the action that you think it is going to. People expect that, you know, a viral post is going to, you know, quadruple their followers overnight or, you know, bring in all of these new sales, you know, or catapult you to this, you know, astronomical, you know, visibility level. And that's honestly just not true. Generally, when a viral post does happen, it's just that it is viral for three to five, you know, maybe a week and then performance drops right off. Your next post isn't going to get any higher reach. you're probably not seeing the the interactions that you would expect, you know, after that. And, you know, there's a good chance that a majority of the people that did see that post aren't even in your target um and are probably not going to come back to see your content in the future. So it is exciting to see a viral post like for sure for sure but do not expect it or hope for it to be the thing that drives your business.
Olivia Myers: I think another interesting hot take that you all had is that, whenever we have paid amplification behind posts, we don't worry about the timing of the post and and even to some degree the number of the posts, right? I've I've seen over the years scopes that come in with 20 30 pieces of content. We start adding paid money behind that and we can decrease the scope down to 10 a month instead. and and there are some ramifications to that a from a budget perspective, but Mariah, from from where you sit, we do have some clients that sometimes post alongside of us, right? and and a lot of times they'll ask us, "Well, what time should I post? Like, how many times a day should I post? What's what's the ideal number?" And if you Google this, Sprout has numbers, Hootsweet has numbers, all of the major platforms, publishing platforms will try to tell you at 7:09 p.m. on Tuesday night, this is whenever you should publish, right? What why does this matter so much less once paid amplification is added into the mix?
00:24:42 - Why Posting Schedule Matters Less with Paid Amplification
Mariah Black-Overholt: Well, there's a couple things that go along with that. So, the number one thing that means it doesn't matter when you add paid ampl amplification to that is because when you add paid amplification, you're also adding a schedule to it. So, we're saying like, I want to run this post for, you know, three or four days or, you know, up to a week, depends on whatever your budget is. Um, and so at that at that point, it doesn't matter when you posted it because it's still going to be seen until the end of that scheduled ad is is has run its course. So, um, it, you know, one point in time isn't going to be like, oh, I have to hit it at exactly this point or it's not going to reach, you know, my 10,000 people that I paid for. That's simply not the case because you'll have set it to run for three or four days as opposed to you know just hoping that your 10,000 people see it in the hour that that Facebook gives it any sort of recognition in the organic feed. But to your second question of you know I think you know why does it matter so much or why it may not matter. it it can still matter on the organic side of things, but not in kind of the precise kind of dialed in way that I think a lot of the you know, when to post kind of forums will give you. And I think it's just some common sense. So, think about how people use the platform. you know, on LinkedIn, when are you most likely to be on LinkedIn? Is it during the day? Is it on the weekend? Is it at night? Think about when your ideal audience is going to be likely to be interacting. LinkedIn is generally like a Monday through Friday. Sometimes we'll see some evening kind of activity, but generally it's during the workday because it's a it's a platform that people can be on at work and maybe get a little bit of networking value out of, but also like it's kind of fun to scroll sometimes. So that it's just human behavior and that's how people interact versus like a Facebook or you know especially like an Instagram like or Tik Tok where Tik Tok and Instagram are likely to be later at night. Maybe you're there on the weekends. you're just kind of, you know, watch if you're watching realels, post them in the evenings because that's when people are likely to be to be watching those. So, there's no hard and fast rule, but think about how your people are likely to be using the platform and and kind of build your posting schedules around that, especially from if you're not going to be doing any sort of paid amplification. Just think about how people use it.
Olivia Myers: And then kind of I alluded to this before, Luis, but like I said, I' i've had several clients over the years that we've actually decreased our management and and maybe encouraged them to, hey, like what if we just put some money behind here?how many times a day should I post? What's what's the ideal number?" And if you Google this, Sprout has numbers, Hootsweet has numbers, all of the major platforms, publishing platforms will try to tell you at 7:09 p.m. on Tuesday night, this is whenever you should publish, right? Why does this matter so much less once paid amplification is added into the mix? And so if if you were advising a CMO that was coming in on where to spend their next marketing dollar, if if it's more content or more amplification, what would you tell them and why?
00:27:40 - Where to Spend Marketing Dollars: Content vs. Amplification
Luis Trejo: Yeah. So short answer amplification almost every time. Longer answer is it depends. But but I would I would lean on the side of amplification for sure. You know depending on the sector segment that a client is in. So, like for example, like if somebody is in like a a beauty segment that's like going direct to consumer, you know, it it could with more content could have a better effect. But, you know, for other businesses where maybe it's more of a B2B setting and you're really trying to like get into that niche audience that you're trying to target to, you know, amplification's going to be your best bet there. I think there there have been times where we'll talk to CMOs or leaders of businesses and they're looking at the invoice that we send them and they're they're looking at the number of posts that they're getting and they're kind of crunching the numbers and doing the math and the the way that we try to direct them is let's let's not start there. Let's start at the end of where you want how you want the story to end. Okay? So for one particular piece of content or five, how do you want the story to end? And if we start there, we could then can work backwards into understanding, okay, this particular video, we're trying to drive engagement. And so we can start to to work backwards in the story and really figure out, okay, where do we need to start with creating this? And then once we get to that point, we can say, "Okay, now we have found the the particular piece of content that we want. We've honed in the messaging. So we know that like this is how we're supposed to be talking to your particular audience. And then when we've figured out those two pieces, then we turn up the volume." Okay? So we want to amplify and then solely direct a lot of this the dollars behind the post to the right individuals. So, talking about business leaders, you know, CMOs, leaders of marketing teams, it's really, flipping that change of mind and really saying like how do you want that story to end and then working with teams like us to figure out how to make that work?
Olivia Myers: And I think that your messaging comment touches on something very important and it it is I think a a really easy trap to fall into that you're not seeing the results on your organic strategy. And so then you're like, well, we just need more like we need to say it more at people. And sometimes it's you need to say it better and you need to say it louder. And that's where I like the paid as almost a little test to see, okay, if I actually hit the target audience that I want to hit, does this messaging resonate with them? So, I think that's a great call out.
Mariah Black-Overholt: Yeah,
Luis Trejo: Yeah.
Mariah Black-Overholt: I think I was just gonna say one other thing to kind of lead off of that.
Olivia Myers: Go ahead.
Mariah Black-Overholt: When we talk about, you know, organic versus paid, the one other thing that I think is important to remember is that we are not, you know, we talked about this a little bit at the beginning, but these are not dark ads. These live on your feed. These are posts that are actually on your feed that we're promoting. they're not separate from that. And so, that's a very important distinction to make. We get a lot of people that ask like, well, should we just run ads? Do we need to still worry about content on the feed? And I think that that that you really do need to. One of the signals that the platforms have that you are an active engaged business is that you're posting regularly and not just running those ads. So when you are thinking about like a paid versus organic strategy, you have to think about it in terms of like, okay, like this is the feed content that's going out and then I'm going to promote that. Maybe I'll do evergreen stuff in addition to that. But don't let the feed be blank and empty because one, the platform is going to see that or not see that and, you know, see that you're not interacting or not posting, but then your audience is going to see the same. Maybe they see your ad and then they go back to your profile and you don't have any actual content. They be like, well, that's that's kind of shifty, kind of kind of disingenuine. I'm probably maybe I don't trust that as much. And we know at the end of the day that trust is kind of the key for both the platform and for the user.
Olivia Myers: And I think that that takes us into our last hot take that we have which for a for a social agency. We don't run organic social asterisk right right there on on that.
Olivia Myers: Um, Luis, can you can you talk about that and what that actually means for us and unpack it a little bit for everybody?
00:33:03 - Organic Social as a Trust Infrastructure
Luis Trejo: Yeah. That is a pretty hot take. So, we don't run organic social, at least not the way most people think you should. I think that's that's the hotter take or that's the more clear take. You know, if your goal is to like create a bunch of content and throw it out there and see what happens, you know, then that's probably not a way that you know we would want to work with you. So like it's not that we don't ever post organic content because that's that's not true. It's just the the way that we approach and frame up how we how we decide to pick and choose what that means. And so I think like we're we're not using organic social as like a growth channel in a way that we are that we were talking about before with the amplification and being able to put dollars behind certain posts. So we we try to flip the script on this. We try to do a lot of educating for our clients on like really understanding. Yes, we still do organic social, but we do it a little bit differently. And we we do that so that we can position and ultimately the at the end of the day that we can get better results and ROI for our clients. So really how we think about organic is like a trust infrastructure. So we want that to be the true voice of the brand. We want that to be the people that are working in your company. We want that to be the customers that the the clients have. We want that like social proof of like there's real humans behind this brand. And so that's how we think about, you know, what organic means. Now, while uh we we tend to lean on the side of amplification with paid dollars, we still need the other side of the equation of the truly organic social posts.
Olivia Myers: It is. It really blurs the lines between what I think most people think of whenever they think of organic social and whenever they think of paid social. And it is always a really fun exercise for us to come in with a with another agency that especially has has a paid they're working with maybe another agency that's working uh on the paid side and for us to explain our philosophy behind it and and see how they um I I've never had somebody tell me before that seems silly, right? like people are always like that makes sense that tracks and and I agree with that and um it it's always just a slight shift in a mindset and how to reframe and and how people think about organic and paid and how they can work together. And I think that Mariah, one one question that I'm going to throw out to you is what do we what can we learn and how can we actually apply it to the traditional paid social side? Um, whenever we do have some of this paid amplification because there are there have been some really good learnings before and some really great crossover between the traditional and and what we're doing as well.
00:36:48 - Repurposing High-Performing Posts for Paid Campaigns
Mariah Black-Overholt: Yes. You kind of hit on it a little bit earlier. But one of my absolute favorite things to do with paid amplification of posts is to then use that as a testing ground. Essentially you have can you have identified a test every single time that you put a post out that's amplified. You know who it's going to go to. You know when they're going to see it. You know what the objective is for them to to see. And then I can say at the end like did this work? Especially when I compare it to the other posts that are similar to it because again if you have you know bucketed your content and given everything a purpose then you should be able to say like okay this post was supposed to do this this post was also supposed to do this which one worked better and you know what you know how did I measure it against that and then once you've identified the top performers at that point you can then say okay I have a traffic campaign that's running independently of this this post did amazingly well let me look at the messaging behind it maybe there's something I can take back and put into that evergreen campaign into more ads. Or my personal favorite, such a life hack, so lazy, is take that exact post and throw it into your traffic campaign because one thing that a lot of people don't realize is that you can do that. You can take, you know, you you can take feed content and use it in evergreen campaigns. And the beauty of it, and it doesn't even have to be the same objective, like maybe you were aiming for object for engagement on the feed post originally, but if I, you know, use that post ID in a traffic campaign, then I maybe want to have people go to the site for it. But the cool part is if I use that same post, it still has all the engagement on it that I had built before. So now you're just layering up this level of interaction. You're not starting from scratch. you're not, you know, trying to build this this community on a post that maybe already has a thousand comments. And it is such such an easy way to repurpose the the work that you've already done and make it work harder for you down the line. So, I I talk about that all the time. You're like, "Wait, what? You can do that?" And just it's it's mind-blowing and such a fun hack.
Olivia Myers: All right. Any last thoughts as we close out here? This has been such a a fun discussion about kind of our strategy. Any anything else that you wanted to throw out for people to know?
Mariah Black-Overholt: Yeah, we kind of touched on it a little bit, but just always remembering that organic and so and paid do not live in separate silos. Um, remembering that the platform, you know, requires both really and and uses both of those as signals to determine, you know, where and how your content performs and kind of the quality signals it gives you.So, just not treating them as completely separate. And if you do have an agency that's doing your organic, and you have another agency that's doing your paid, then those two agencies or maybe you have one that's internal, but everybody needs to talk to each other and they need to line up. You need to make sure that your strategies are aligned and that you're not running in two different directions. We see that a lot as well. But when everything gets synchronized and and you have these systems in place that that really do a good job of measuring things, then that's when you can really take your your paid social to the next level. And really see the results that I think a lot of people hope to see when they start doing some any sort of social strategy.
Olivia Myers: All right. Well, thank you both for being here today. And if we have made you rethink advertising, social, organic, paid, feed content, any of it at all, and and your strategy, especially as we head into the second half of the year here, and and you have more questions, please reach out to us. You can find us at cheddarkick.com. Hit contact us and reach out. but we'd be happy to do an audit of your existing account or even talk through exactly how you might be able to implement the strategy for your own pages that you have and accounts moving forward. So, thank you both and we will see you next time on Generation Social Media.
Mariah Black-Overholt: Thanks,
Luis Trejo: Thanks.