Organic Reach is a Risky Place to Put Your Confidence
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Well, hello and welcome to Chatterkick's Generation Social Media podcast. We have
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two very special guests today. Mariah Black Overholt who is an ad strategist
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and analytics lead for Cheddkick and Luis Trejo who is the COO at Chatterkick.
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So uh welcome both of you and thanks for for joining us today.
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Always happy to be on.
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Yes, thank you. Thank you. So I am really excited about today's discussion
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because it is kind of almost a secret sauce for Chatterkick and um something
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that we've been doing since we started as a company and how we approach organic
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social differently from other agencies and and what it means for our clients
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whenever we do that and some of the aha moments that they have. And so, um,
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really the premise around this is that so many brands publish content and try
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to game the algorithm and figure out exactly, well, how many posts am I
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supposed to do? When am I supposed to post them? Um, do I need six people to
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go in and immediately react on these posts to get bigger reach? and we've
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basically figured out how to get past all of those concerns and almost
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guarantee some some results. So, um before I like give any, you know, all of
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that information away, I want to kick it over to you, Luis, because like what is
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the origin story of of what the strategy is? Like what is the strategy? What's
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the origin story behind it? and and when did we start start doing this tactic?
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>> Yeah, it's a really good question and one that kind of came out of being born
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by the founder of the company, Beth. Um was really kind of the premise behind
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it. So back in 2012 is when we started and uh coincidentally that was also the
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same year that like um Facebook opened up like a promoted or a boost of a post.
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Um, and so really like the approach was when we were talking to our clients, you
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know, reach is something that's very hard to like stand behind and organic
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reach. And it's really, you know, the platform itself is kind of deciding
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where that goes for free on their schedule. Um, but then being able to
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layer on a paid component was like a lever that we could stack on by
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ourselves. So, this was more of like how do we best mitigate that risk and how
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can we control it?
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>> Um, and then just thinking about putting ourselves in our client's shoes like if
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we're paying money to have this content developed to post, you know, to capture
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videos or photos, um, then we really want to make sure that the right people
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are seeing at the right time. So, uh, it was just too much to leave like solely
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on the platform to just say here you go. uh control is all yours. Um it really
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gave us a way to control the controllable from our end. Um
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>> so
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>> yeah, I was going to ask kind of building off of that, you know, what's
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the actual problem there that we were solving for. Do you think
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>> I think some of it was trying to figure out like,
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you know, there was a lot of agencies at that time that were pushing volume. It's
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like just post more,
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>> get more get more posts out there, get more words out there, get more content
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out there, and then you're just hoping that the algorithm is going to reward
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you for that. Um, so it was a little bit of like trying to figure out what's the
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best mix um of that and also being able to layer on the paid side of things. So
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it was, you know, we we really did a lot of like uh testing and trying to figure
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out what was the best mix. Um but ultimately at the end of the day, it's
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like like I said before, like what you can control um is better than always
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just going for let the platform decide where the best route for this is.
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One of the things that I think is so fascinating about this approach of of
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the paid amplification of of content, and Maria, I'll talk to you in a little
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bit about what that actually looks like and how it's a little different from
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boosting a post. Um, but it's the fact that it translates across every single
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platform that we have and it's held up for, you know, almost 15 years now. And
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so I'm I'm curious, Luis, from a business standpoint, why do you think
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it's held up for that for that long and across all of the platforms?
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>> Yeah, I think more that it's like it's a principle that we use instead of like a
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platform specific tactic. And so being able to lean back on, you know, what I
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was talking about before where it's like if if we are in the client's shoes, like
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we're spending all of this money in order to be able to to project our name
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or our brand or our products or our website or whatever it is. Um it's it's
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banking on the principle to say like this is platform agnostic like we can
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you know we can put this particular dollars uh behind these posts in a way
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uh no matter what platform it's on. So that gives us a really good foundation
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to build off of and uh a really great way for us to to understand what that
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means as a company. Like every single person can understand that principle. It
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doesn't have to be, you know, specific to one particular platform while there's
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some nuances. Um, but that really lets us, you know, keep that foundation for
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the business.
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>> So, now that we've kind of set the stage on the why why we started doing this
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exactly, Mariah, I want to dive into you a little bit on the how without going
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into ads manager because nobody wants to do that, right? But can you walk us
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through what what paid social actually means at Chatterkick and how it is so
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different from what most people actually picture or think of whenever they hear,
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well, we're going to promote a post, we're going to boost a post, right? Like
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that's what people generally think whenever we first talk about this with
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them.
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>> Yeah, definitely. I think there's a couple different assumptions that people
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have. one, when we say we're gonna promote or, you know, create an ad out
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of something, they assume that it's going to be thousands, massive campaign,
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and outside of um maybe the traditional content that's going out on a feed, you
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know, it's going to be something that's only seen in this instance or only for
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this amount of time. Um, that's misconception number one. Um, and
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misconception number two is kind of like what you were saying in that there are
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different levels of ads management on the three major platforms that you're
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probably or four major platforms really that you're using for for content
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creation. Um, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and Tik
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Tok all have what I would consider to be like the easy version of promoting or
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boosting a post wherein you, you know, basically press a button and say spend
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$50 over two days to boost this. And that's kind of what you've been saying.
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Um, which is basically just to increase the reach, which sounds great in theory.
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That's we we want to see more reach, right? Um, but really the the tactic
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behind a lot of this and some of the strategy and philosophy that we're
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talking about is being able to reach the correct audience. So it's like adding on
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to that a little bit. Um, so we want to reach the correct audience, but we also
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want them to take maybe a certain action which is not necessarily available with
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with a simple boost. But what a lot of people don't realize or what don't
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understand is that the advanced tools are available to everyone. You don't
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have to have a special degree. You don't have to have a certification. Um, you
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don't have to be on Facebook's VIP list, which turns out no one is. Um, but, uh,
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everyone has access to the ads manager side of things, which allows you to have
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kind of this backend look at at tools. Um, and what that gives us is control.
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So, we're allowed to say like, okay, I want to build this audience around this.
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So, these are my ICPS. Let me find the interests that fit this ICP. Maybe I
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have a custom list that I want to use to target. Um there's all kinds of
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geographic uh tools, those kind of things to build this list itself to make
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sure that we know that the person who is seeing it is the correct person. Um the
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next thing that we can do with these kind of advanced capabilities outside of
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boosting is determine the outcome of what it is the interaction is. Um so
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when we boost something again we just said we want people to see more of it
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versus if we use the advanced tools we can say I want people to take this sort
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of interaction on it. I want them to uh you know watch the entire video or I
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want them to interact with the post or even I want them to go to the website um
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or fill out some sort of further um further action. So, it it gives us a lot
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more control and allows us to be able to um benchmark and baseline a lot of the
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outcome as well.
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>> I think that you bring up a a really interesting point and and a question for
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me that comes up from this is the it's it's not taking all of your content
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exactly and throwing it into the ad campaign with the same ad objective,
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right? like you are kind of picking and choosing based on the content piece
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because our content strategy for our clients isn't all a lot of our clients
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come in and they're like well I want to drive leads I want to you know get
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whatever it is that their goal is that's usually like way down the funnel but
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what we always educate on is well you need it across the entire funnel so you
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need to have some of those loyalty pieces and maybe that's paired with
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engagement or maybe that's another one is paired with video views just like you
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And so what do you think is the real distinction between giving every post
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its own budget and and timeline versus what the common approach of social and
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what lives on the feed lives on the feed and then we've got these paid evergreen
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evergreen ads is what I'll call them but where you're everything lives under the
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exact same umbrella with the exact same objective with the exact same pool of
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budget to to pull from. I think Louise kind of talked about it a
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little bit earlier, but it's very much just the philosophy that we have behind
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this. Um, with those evergreen ads, which we we run evergreen campaigns as
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well. A lot of times clients will have, you know, specific goals in mind for
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those and those live outside of um, you know, the feed content, but the feed
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content is really what we're talking about today and those are going to be
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the pieces that people see when they go to your profile. you know, like here's
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the chronological list of, you know, today we're posting a behind the scenes
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or tomorrow might be a promo or maybe uh, you know, the next day is, you know,
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a feature of the product. Um, and that's the content that we're talking about
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today. So, it doesn't necessarily live in a campaign that is like evergreen. It
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is really just an ongoing visibility of kind of your social content and your
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social feed. Uh when we set up our content and when we think about how
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we're going to promote it, we think about the fact that every post needs to
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have its own job. It needs to have a purpose. It has to um you know, live,
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you kind of alluded to this. Is it going to drive loyalty? Is it going to drive
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consideration? Um is this a conversion focused post? And when we build out and
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brainstorm for those posts, that's one of the things we're thinking about like
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what is the end goal for this? And once we have that kind of built, that allows
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us to kind of build the copy and the strategy around the post itself so that
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it's not just a random like behind the scenes, but it has to do something. Um,
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once that's all set in place and everything's approved, at that point, we
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then determine, okay, what is the end goal for this? So, it's a video, um, and
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it's a, you know, consideration post. We want people to learn something for that.
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Okay, I'm probably going to think about that in an objective of I want people to
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watch the entire video because they're going to learn the most by watching the
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entire thing. Um, and so that's kind of the strategy around how we build that
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out is to really think about it from start to finish. What do I want this
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post to do and how is the best way to get it there? Do I need to change the
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objective? Do I need to change um the audience? Perhaps it maybe isn't your
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broadest audience. Maybe it's a smaller segment that is more focused on kind of
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the the conversion aspect of it, but that can change for everything. Um, and
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it just determine it just det depends on what the the post needs to do.
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And you know, from a from a business perspective, Luis, I'm going to kick
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this question over to you. You know, we're talking about incremental ad spend
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dollars on these um what does that actually mean to us? like as far as, you
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know, how much we're we're spending per post or um budgetwise, you know, what
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percentage of a client's budget goes into these uh typically these types of
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campaigns.
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>> Yeah. I think some of the beauty of this is that like you don't necessarily have
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to have a very big budget in order to make this work. Um, and because we can
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kind of do that that audience targeting in a way where we're getting it in front
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of the people that the the client needs them to get in front of that just with a
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little bit of a budget behind a one post or five post or however many posts it is
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really makes the amplification of what you're trying to get out there
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stand out. And so like you know for 2050 $100 $150 I mean like that goes a long
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way. Um, and because we're looking and framing at uh these particular posts on,
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okay, like Mariah was saying, we need the outcome of this one to be a
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conversion or we need the outcome of this one to be a website click that
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we're able to focus those dollars in on that as opposed to just saying boost
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this post and just spread it out somewhere and go find these people. Um
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it's it just makes the the search uh that much more easy to target.
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>> Yeah, it's a lot more efficient too. And because we have a lot of baselines and
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benchmarks on like CPMs or even on conversion type a like actions, we know
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on average it's probably going to cost you know 8 to10 to reach a thousand
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people on Facebook. So then that allows us to kind of work backwards of okay
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like here's what our audience size is how here's how much it will cost to
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reach these folks or you know I want to try to get you know 20 clicks off of
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this specific post. How much is it going to cost me when I look at like the cost
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per click? Um so there's a there's a couple ways you can even like work
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backwards instead of trying to guesstimate. Um, and there's a lot of
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tools out there these days that allow you to kind of um, do that kind of
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benchmarking per platform as well,
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>> which I think lays us perfectly in. Uh, you guys told me a couple of hot takes
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before we jumped in here. And hot take number one, Mariah, was I can guarantee
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how your content performs. Um, that is a very bold statement in marketing where a
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lot of what we say to people is well, it depends, right? But Mariah, what I'm
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hearing you say is that you can guarantee a range uh for impressions and
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and cost per click and CPM and cost per conversion and and things of that nature
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on on these types of campaigns kind of specifically. So, what makes you that
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confident enough to say that where most marketers are like, I hope this one
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works and sends it out into the Nether, uh, hoping that that piece will perform.
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>> Well, that is very much, I think, the the secret sauce and Louise said it best
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of like we need to be able to, you know, kind of put our money where our mouth
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is. If we're going to do this work on this content, we need it to be able to
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to reach the the right people. Um, and so, you know, having that control over
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the things that are normally uncontrollable, leaving it up to a roll
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of the dice or the platform. And one of the things I think people need to
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remember is that the platform is not here to achieve your business goals. The
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platform is there to achieve its goals, and its goals are to show content in
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front of the people that are going to see it. And it doesn't matter if it's
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your content or not. Um, if it's more, you know, if people are more likely to
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watch a a funny kitten video versus, you know, your B2B software ad, it's going
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to show a funny kitten video if it's available in its inventory. That's just
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the the fact of the matter is um, you know, we all love these platforms, but
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we cannot think of them as like, you know, thinking about us all the time,
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like they do not exist to to really actually amplify your content in the way
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that you want. So if you want that to happen, you have to be able to control
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some of that. And so when I say like I can kind of guarantee a little bit of,
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you know, what those results are going to look like, that means that like we
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said, we've kind of done the background work, we've done the benchmarking, um we
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look at industries, we look at trends, we look at objectives, um kind of all,
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you know, even formats. like I know that, you know, video is going to be
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cheaper to show to a wider range of people and I'm going to get um you know,
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more video engagement on a post versus if I'm asking for people to share
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something um because that's a higher value engagement. But I can say I know
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what that's going to cost you to get video versus what it's going to cost you
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to get shares. And so um like like you said, we can we can kind of work our way
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back into that by saying, "Okay, you gave me a $50 budget on this per post.
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um we can probably guarantee that with the you know barring any sort of crazy
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anomalies in seasonality which um a lot of people will talk about you know oh
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like Black Friday or like Q4 it's going to be way more expensive um there are
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some instances where seasonality can affect um ad inventory pretty
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significantly on Facebook especially um Google ads sometimes as well but I would
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say that for most of the year most of the the benchmarks do hold up and
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they're pretty standard. You're not going to see wild fluctuations kind of
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monthto month or week to week. Um, and so we are be basically able to say,
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okay, given this budget, given this objective, and given this type of post,
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we can pretty much guarantee that you're going to be in this range, which is not
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something you can say with organic.
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>> Yeah. And I think like even going back like the predictability of a range, like
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you know, so often we'll have conversations around like, well, how how
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does how did this company get a viral post? like how do they do that? And you
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know what we try to tell them is like a viral post is essentially a lottery
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ticket that you hit. You know, you're you're your odds aren't very good. Um
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from a predictability standpoint, like it's it's hard to repeat. Um it's hard
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to budget for. Uh you you can't put a viral post on a on a media plan for next
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quarter. Like you can't guarantee that. predictable ranges is a different thing.
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So if we can say, okay, for these five posts that we are going to be sending
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out in September, here's what we're expecting
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and here's the range that we're expecting. And that's a lot more
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predictable to like a chief marketing officer or someone in the leadership
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team as opposed to saying, "We're going to try all these different weird and
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crazy things that we've been seeing that have been going viral on the internet
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and we're going to try to repeat that for our brand so that hopefully we can
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cash in that lottery ticket."
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>> And it's not to say that it's not exciting if you do have a viral moment.
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I mean, we've had a few of those here over the years. Um, sometimes on posts
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that we never would have expected um to go viral. Um, but I think something else
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that's very important to remember about verality is that for the vast majority
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of people when you have a viral post, it probably isn't actually going to drive
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the action that you think it is going to. People expect that, you know, a
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viral post is going to, you know, quadruple their followers overnight or,
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you know, bring in all of these new sales. um you know or catapult you to
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this you know astronomical you know visibility level and that's honestly
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just not true. Generally when a viral post does happen it's just that it is
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viral for three to five you know maybe a week and then performance drops right
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off. Your next post isn't going to get any higher reach. Um you're probably not
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seeing the the interactions that you would expect, you know, after that. And
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you know, there's a good chance that a majority of the people that did see that
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post aren't even in your target um and are probably not going to come back to
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see your content in the future. So, it is exciting to see a viral post like for
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sure, for sure. But do not expect it or hope for it to be the thing that drives
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your business. I think another interesting hot take
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that you all had is that we whenever we have paid amplification
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behind posts, we don't worry about the timing of the post and and even to some
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degree the number of the posts, right? Um I've I've seen over the years scopes
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that come in with 20 30 pieces of content. we start adding paid money
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behind that and we can decrease the scope down to 10 a month instead and and
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there are some ramifications to that uh from a budget perspective but um you
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know Mariah from from where you sit we do have some clients that sometimes post
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alongside of us right um and and a lot of times they'll ask us well what time
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should I post like how many times a day should I post what's what's the ideal
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number and if you Google this sprout has numbers. Hootsweet has numbers. All of
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the major platforms, publishing platforms will try to tell you at 7:09
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p.m. on Tuesday night, this is whenever you should publish, right? What why does
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this matter so much less once paid amplification is added into the mix?
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Well, there's a couple things that go along with that. So the number one thing
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that means it doesn't matter when you add paid ampl amplification to that is
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because when you add paid amplification you're also adding a schedule to it. So
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we're saying like I want to run this post for you know three or four days or
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you know up to a week depends on whatever your budget is. Um and so at
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that at that point it doesn't matter when you posted it because it's still
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going to be seen until the end of that scheduled ad is is has run its course.
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So, um, it, you know, one point in time isn't going to be like, oh, I have to
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hit it at exactly this point or it's not going to reach, you know, my 10,000
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people that I paid for. That's that's simply not the case because you'll have
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set it to run for three or four days as opposed to, you know, just hoping that,
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uh, you know, your 10,000 people see it in the hour that that Facebook gives it
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any sort of, um, recognition in the organic feed. Um, but to your second
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question, uh, you know, I think, you know, why does it matter so much or why
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it may not matter? It it can still matter on the organic side of things,
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but not in kind of the precise kind of dialed in way that I think a lot of the
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uh, you know, when to post kind of forums will give you. Um, and I think
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it's just some common sense. So, you know, think about how people use the
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platform. Um, you know, on LinkedIn, when are you most likely to be on
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LinkedIn? Is it during the day? Is it on the weekend? Is it at night? Think about
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when your ideal audience is going to be likely to be interacting. Um, LinkedIn
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is generally like a Monday through Friday. Sometimes we'll see some evening
24:16
kind of activity, but generally it's during the workday because it's a it's a
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platform that people can be on at work and maybe get a little bit of networking
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value out of, but also like it's kind of fun to scroll sometimes. Um, so that
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it's just human behavior and that's how people interact versus like a Facebook
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or you know especially like an Instagram like or Tik Tok where Tik Tok and
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Instagram are likely to be later at night. Um maybe you're there on the
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weekends. Um you're just kind of you know watch if you're watching reals post
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them in the evenings because that's when people are likely to be to be watching
24:45
those. So, um, there's no hard and fast rule, but think about how your people
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are likely to be using the platform and and kind of build your posting schedules
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around that, especially from if you're not going to be doing any sort of paid
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amplification. Um, just think about how people use it.
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And then kind of I alluded to this before, Luis, but like I said, I' i've
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had several clients over the years that we've actually decreased our management
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and and maybe encouraged them to, hey, like what if we just put some money
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behind here? And so if if you were advising a CMO that was coming in on
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where to spend their next marketing dollar, if if it's more content or more
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amplification, what would you tell them and why?
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>> Yeah. Uh so short answer amplification almost every time. Uh longer answer is
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it depends. Um but but I would I would lean on the side of amplification for
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sure. You know depending on the sector or segment that a client is in. So like
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for example like if somebody is in like a a beauty segment that's like going
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direct to consumer you know it it could uh with more content could have a better
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effect. But, you know, for other businesses where maybe it's more of a
26:03
B2B setting and you're really trying to like get into that niche audience that
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you're trying to target to, you know, amplification's going to be your best
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bet there. Um, I think there there have been times where we'll talk to CMOs or
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leaders of businesses and they're looking at the invoice uh that we send
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them and they're they're looking at the number of posts that they're getting and
26:25
they're kind of crunching the numbers and doing the math and the
26:30
um the the way that we try to direct them is let's let's not start there.
26:35
Let's start at the end of where you want how you want the story to end. Okay? So
26:40
for one particular piece of content or five, how do you want the story to end?
26:45
And if we start there, we could then can work backwards into understanding, okay,
26:52
uh this particular video, uh we're trying to drive engagement. Um and so we
26:58
can start to to work backwards in the story and really figure out, okay, where
27:02
do we need to start with creating this? And then once we get to that point, we
27:07
can say, "Okay, now um we have found the the particular piece of content that we
27:15
want. Um we've honed in the messaging." So we know that like this is how we're
27:20
supposed to be talking to your particular audience. And then when we've
27:24
uh figured out those two pieces, then we turn up the volume. Okay? So we want to
27:29
amplify and then solely direct uh a lot of this the dollars behind the post to
27:36
the right uh individuals. So um you know talking about business leaders, you
27:42
know, CMOS, leaders of marketing teams, um it's really, you know, flipping that
27:47
change of mind and really saying like how do you want that story to end? And
27:52
then working with teams like us to figure out how to make that work.
27:58
And I think that your messaging comment touches on something very important and
28:04
it it is I think a a really easy trap to fall into that you're not seeing the
28:09
results on your organic strategy. And so then you're like, well, we just need
28:13
more like we need to say it more at people. And sometimes it's you
28:18
need to say it better and you need to say it louder. And that's where I like
28:22
the paid as almost a little test to see, okay, if I actually hit the target
28:26
audience that I want to hit, does this messaging resonate with them? So, I
28:31
think that's a great call out.
28:33
>> Yeah.
28:33
>> Yeah.
28:34
>> I think Go ahead. I was just going to say one other thing to kind of lead off
28:38
of that. Um, when we talk about, you know, organic versus paid, the one other
28:43
thing that I think is important to remember is that we are not, you know,
28:48
we talked about this a little bit at the beginning, but these are not dark ads.
28:51
These live on your feed. These are posts that are actually on your feed that
28:54
we're promoting. They're not separate from that. And so, um, that's a very
28:58
important distinction to make. We got a lot of people that ask like, well,
29:01
should we just run ads? Do we need to still worry about content on the feed?
29:04
Um, and I think that that that you really do need to. One of the signals
29:08
that the platforms have that you are an active engaged business is that you're
29:12
posting regularly and not just running those ads. Um, so when you are thinking
29:16
about like a paid versus organic strategy, you have to think about it in
29:19
terms of like, okay, like this is the feed contents going out and then I'm
29:22
going to promote that. Maybe I'll do evergreen stuff in addition to that. But
29:26
don't let the feed be blank and empty because one, the platform is going to
29:31
see that or not see that and and you know see that you're not interacting or
29:35
not posting, but then your audience is going to see the same. Maybe they see
29:38
your ad and then they go back to your profile and you don't have any actual
29:41
content and be like, well that's that's kind of shifty, kind of kind of
29:44
disingenuine and probably maybe I don't trust that as much. And we know at the
29:47
end of the day that trust is kind of the key for both the platform and for the
29:50
user. And I think that that takes us into our
29:56
last hot take uh that we have which for a for a social agency. Um we don't run
30:02
organic social asterisk right right there on on that. Um Louise, can you can
30:09
you talk about that and what that actually means for us and unpack it a
30:14
little bit for everybody?
30:15
>> Yeah. Um that is a pretty hot take. So, we don't run organic social, at least
30:21
not the way most people think you should. I think that's that's the hotter
30:25
take or that's the more clear take. Um, you know, if your goal is to like create
30:31
a bunch of content and throw it out there and see what happens, you know,
30:34
then that's probably not a way that, you know, we would want to work with you.
30:39
Um, so like it's not that we don't ever post organic content because that's
30:44
that's not true. It's just the the way that we approach and frame up um how we
30:49
how we decide to pick and choose what that means. And so I think like we're
30:54
we're not using organic social as like a growth channel in a way that we are uh
30:59
that we were talking about before with the amplification and being able to put
31:03
dollars behind certain posts. So um we we try to flip the script on this. We
31:09
try to do a lot of educating for our clients on like really understanding.
31:14
Yes, we still do organic social, but we do it a little bit differently. Um, and
31:19
we we do that so that we can position and ultimately the at the end of the day
31:25
that we can get better results and ROI for our clients.
31:29
>> So, um, really how we think about organic is like a trust infrastructure.
31:37
So, we want that to be the true voice of the brand. We want that to be the people
31:43
that are working in your company. We want that to be the customers that the
31:47
the clients have. We want that like social proof of like there's real humans
31:52
behind this brand. And so, that's how we think about, you know, what organic
31:57
means. Now, while uh we we tend to lean on the side of amplification with paid
32:05
dollars, we still need the other side of the equation of the truly organic social
32:10
posts. It is.
32:17
It really blurs the lines between what I think most people think of whenever they
32:23
think of organic social and whenever they think of paid social. And it is
32:29
always a really fun exercise for us to come in with a with another agency that
32:35
especially has has a paid they're working with maybe another agency that's
32:39
working uh on the paid side and for us to explain our philosophy behind it and
32:45
and see how they um I I've never had somebody tell me before that seems
32:52
silly, right? like people are always like that makes sense that tracks and
32:57
and I agree with that and um it it's always just a slight shift in a mindset
33:04
and how to reframe and and how people think about organic and paid and how
33:09
they can work together. And I think that Mariah, one one question that I'm going
33:14
to throw out to you is what do we what can we learn and how can
33:19
we actually apply it to the traditional paid social side? um whenever we do have
33:24
some of this paid amplification because there are there have been some really
33:28
good learnings before and some really great crossover between the traditional
33:32
and and what we're doing as well.
33:34
>> Yes. Um you kind of hit on it a little bit earlier. Um but one of my absolute
33:39
favorite things to do with paid amplification of posts is to then use
33:44
that as a testing ground. Um, essentially you have can you have
33:49
identified a test every single time that you put a post out that's amplified. You
33:53
know who it's going to go to. You know when they're going to see it. You know
33:56
what the objective is for them to to see. And then I can say at the end like
33:59
did this work? Especially when I compare it to the other posts that are similar
34:03
to it. Because again if you have you know bucketed your content and given
34:07
everything a purpose then you should be able to say like okay this post was
34:11
supposed to do this. This post was also supposed to do this. which one worked
34:15
better and you know what you know how did I measure it against that and then
34:18
once you've identified the top performers at that point you can then
34:21
say okay I have a traffic campaign that's running independently of this
34:26
this post did amazingly well let me look at the messaging behind it maybe there's
34:30
something I can take back and put into that evergreen campaign into more ads or
34:35
my personal favorite such a life hack so lazy is take that exact post and throw
34:41
it into your traffic campaign because one thing that a lot of people don't
34:44
realize is that you can do that. You can take you you can take feed content and
34:48
use it in evergreen campaigns. And the beauty of it um and it doesn't even have
34:55
to be the same objective like maybe you were aiming for object for engagement on
34:59
the feed post originally but if I you know use that post ID in a traffic
35:04
campaign then I maybe want to have people go to the site for it. But the
35:07
cool part is if I use that same post it still has all the engagement on it
35:12
that I had built before. So now you're just layering up this level of
35:15
interaction. Um you're not starting from scratch. You're not, you know, trying to
35:19
build this this community on a post that maybe already has a thousand comments.
35:24
Um and it is such such an easy way um to repurpose the the work that you've
35:29
already done um and make it work harder for you down the line. So um I I I talk
35:35
about that all the time. You're like, "Wait, what? You can do that?" And just
35:38
it's it's mind-blowing and such a fun hack.
35:43
All right. Any last thoughts as we close out here? This has been such a a fun
35:49
discussion about kind of our strategy. Any anything else that you wanted to
35:53
throw out for people to know?
35:54
>> Yeah, we kind of touched on it a little bit, but just always remembering that
35:58
organic and so and paid do not live in separate silos. um remembering that the
36:03
platform, you know, requires both really and and uses both of those as signals to
36:08
determine, you know, where and how your content performs and kind of the quality
36:11
signals it gives you. So, um just not treating them as completely separate.
36:15
And if you do have an agency that's doing your organic um and you have
36:19
another agency that's doing your paid, then those two agencies or maybe you
36:23
have one that's internal, but everybody needs to talk to each other and they
36:26
need to line up. um you need to make sure that your strategies are aligned
36:29
and that you're not running in two different directions. Um we see that a
36:33
lot as well. But when everything gets synchronized and and you have these
36:37
systems in place that that really do a good job of measuring things, then
36:41
that's when you can really take your your paid social to the next level um
36:45
and really see the results that I think a lot of people hope to see when they
36:49
start doing some any sort of social strategy.
36:54
>> All right. Well, thank you both for being here today. And if we have made
36:59
you rethink advertising, social, organic, paid, feed content, any of it
37:07
at all, and and your strategy, especially as we head into the second
37:12
half of the year here, um, and and you have more questions, please reach out to
37:17
us. Um, you can find us at chatterkick.com. Um, hit contact us and
37:22
reach out. We'd be happy to do an audit of your existing account or even talk
37:27
through exactly how you might be able to implement the strategy for your own um
37:32
pages that you have and accounts moving forward. So, thank you both and we will
37:38
see you next time on Generation Social Media.
37:41
Thanks, Liv.
37:42
Thanks,